This is Why We Don't Like Dealerships [Update #2]

"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck) 03/06/2019 at 16:36 • Filed to: None

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[Update 2] I just got back from the 1:00 appointment to replaced the airbag in the WRX. It took them just over two hours this time. Go figure.

I asked for and received the alignment sheet for our Outback. The left front and both rears were out of spec. Strange, the curb rash is on the right front. I’m wondering if it was on the right rear and they rotated it to the front when my wife took it in. I have no idea where she put the paperwork. The world may never know. Anyway, everything is in-spec now. Either the tires are wonky or I’m just not used to the squishiness of an Outback. I’ll give it another thousand miles and see where things stand.

Before I left , the advise r was trying out a new toy on my car. It’s a hand-held laser scanner for checking tire depths. If everything goes right, the results are printed out and show you exactly what the tread depths are across your tires.

The results indicate the right-rear tire on my WRX is worn and should be replaced IMMEDIATELY. The truth is that the guy needs more practice before his results can be trusted. See how the grooves are evenly spaced on the graphic? Three of my tires look similar, but the fourth, the right-rear one, is way off. All of the grooves are skewed to the left side of the graphic and the outside one is half the width of the others. I’m sure he’ll start getting good results eventually, but practice makes perfect, right?

  [Update] I drove the car home after their airbag replacement and alignment service. I’m not convinced they really did an alignment. It’s not pulling the same, but it’s a little vague in the front end, so I wonder if they just tweaked one wheel a bit and called it good. The whole process took less than an hour, including the airbag replacement, the alignment, and the “free wash” that is included with every service. I’ll be requesting the alignment sheet when I go back for the airbag replacement on my WRX this afternoon as benn454 suggested. I did check all four tires for tread depth. It’s getting close, but they all match. I’m betting we’ll need to replace them before the end of the year. The only evidence that they did the airbag was the radio losing all of its presets. They had to unplug the battery so they didn’t accidentally set off the airbags, so I’m guessing they actually did that work.

[Original]

About a month ago, I had a chance to drive our Outback for the first time in a while. It was pulling a little to the right, so I asked my wife to take it to the dealer and ask them to check the alignment. They told her that it needed an alignment but they wouldn’t do it without putting new tires on it first. They said the wear was uneven and they couldn’t align it without new tires. I told her to thank them and take the car home. I planned to check on the tires and get an alignment done at an independent shop.

Last week we received airbag notices for both the Outback and my WRX. Since I planned to work from home this week, I scheduled airbag replacements for both cars. I’m sitting in the waiting area while they are working on the Outback and they came to me a few minutes ago with their recommended 60,000 mile service list. Guess what’s not on it. Right. Tires. They also said that they would skip the alignment since the tires are all in spec.

What the hell?

I was shopping for tires because they said it needed tires. Now they say the tires are fine. I’m going to have to check them myself when I get back home. I think the difference is who is sitting in the waiting room, me or my wife. That’s just shady, Subaru.

Other items on the list include filters, spark plugs, an intake cleaning, an oil change (we just did that), and a brake fluid flush. All of these are items we can do ourselves for a lot less than $750 (it was $850 with the recommended alignment). Time to hit up Rock Auto.

E90M3 > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/06/2019 at 10:03

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Did you check the tread yourself? 

ArmadaExpress drives a turbo outback > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/06/2019 at 10:04

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Intake cleaning? Do they mean cleaning the intake manifold, like media blasting? Or something else?

TheRealBicycleBuck > ArmadaExpress drives a turbo outback 03/06/2019 at 10:10

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For $132 they certainly aren’t talking about taking anything apart. The parts are $17.50, so I’m betting it’s an hour of labor plus a can of SeaFoam.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > ArmadaExpress drives a turbo outback 03/06/2019 at 10:11

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Chemical induction

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > ArmadaExpress drives a turbo outback 03/06/2019 at 10:12

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They probably mean opening the air box an taking a rag to clean it up.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/06/2019 at 10:12

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The total cost seems reasonable for dealer service; spark plugs alone are like $300. Being shady with the tire thing, though, is just them attempting to bilk money out of someone OR indicates the tech at the time may have been inexperienced or trying to upsell . Does it still pull?

TheRealBicycleBuck > E90M3 03/06/2019 at 10:13

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I’ll be checking it when I get back home. I took them on good faith and started shopping while I was still in Houston. It was going to be a good opportunity to put something a little meatier on the wheels. 

Ash78, voting early and often > ArmadaExpress drives a turbo outback 03/06/2019 at 10:14

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Probably running a can of Seafoam through it to clean the intake (valves) and charging you $150 for it.

E90M3 > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/06/2019 at 10:15

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Any time I’ve been told I should think about replacing tires, they’ve told me the measurements . Hell, BMW even allowed to put used tires on my 3 that I provided. (That in itself is a long story.)

Ash78, voting early and often > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/06/2019 at 10:15

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This is 100% typical dealer stuff at our Honda dealer . However, at my VW dealer where I know the service manager, they never upsell me on anything at all (the once every 2-3 years that I visit) . I think they’re just happy I’m there with my 18-year-old car because I might buy a new one.

OPPOsaurus WRX > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/06/2019 at 10:15

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i wen to a local Subie dealer when I was looking for a WRX.  They wanted me to sign a P&S before getting to take a test drive in a USED WRX.  GO FUCK TAILPIPES.

LongbowMkII > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/06/2019 at 10:16

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60k seems like a short interval for plugs on a newer car.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/06/2019 at 10:16

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Yeah the inconsistency sucks. But I wouldn’t automatically assume it’s who’s in the waiting room. It depends on the tech looking at the car. A lot of newer techs will miss things because of inexperience. Some more experienced techs will leave things off of an estimate simply because they don’t want to do those repairs. Neither of those is good obviously, but making assumptions isn’t good either.

Subaru spark plugs suck. And yeah, you can do it cheaper. But how much cheaper when you factor in the cost of your labor? If you spend a whole weekend, 16 hours, and let’s just say you make 30/hr  at work, that's 480 dollars. Plus the cost of parts, you're not that far off of their estimate. Sure it might take you half a day and you might make less. But it's something to consider.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/06/2019 at 10:42

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Not all dealerships are bad, but a lot of them are.

When I had my Civic, I went in for an oil change and tire rotation, like you do, which was the only service recommended at my mileage . The did suggest I do my filters, but I declined, indicating they’d been done at my previous service, also by them.

Ten minutes later, a “service tech” came out holding a filthy air filter, and told me it was in desperate need of replacement. TBH it looked like a mildly dirty air filter someone had shoved a bunch of old grass clippings into. Conveniently , he had a printed estimate for me to sign and authorize the work. $80. Despite not being that sort of person, I looked at him and calmly said. “Yeah that looks bad. Weird because I expressly told you not to check the filters. Still, I guess that means you guys didn’t replace it the last time I was in here, like I was charged for?” He grumbled something about blowing it out and left. I should have pressed the issue but...

Ten minutes later he comes back in and says they won’t rotate my tires because my tires are too worn to be worth it oh and by the way here is a quote for me to sign authorizing replacing the tires at $200/ corner. Again, I explained the car was three years old, so if it needed tires there was no way in hell I’d be putting the same ones back on. He wandered off again.

Five minutes later he came back and did the exact same series of cons to the poor woman next to me, slightly different as it was about filters and timing belt.

I never went back to that, or any, Honda dealer again. A couple months later when I sold the car, my CarMax estimate gave me credit for tires in “good” condition.

/rant

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > OPPOsaurus WRX 03/06/2019 at 10:51

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P&S?

benn454 > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/06/2019 at 10:55

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If they put it up on the alignment rack, it should have printed out a graph with your camber, caster, toe, thrust angle, and tread depth measurements. They should have shown this to you and your wife when they checked the alignment. 

Tripper > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/06/2019 at 10:58

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I have said it on here a few times, but my worst dealership experiences have been Subaru, and I have owned/own a lot of Subarus. I have bought from every Subaru dealer within 100 miles of my house because I swore I would never again work with that particular dealer afterward.

BMW is second on my dealership shit list.

Audi has been by far the best, VW has also been great.

I take my wife’s Forester to my BMW inde when it’s something I can’t (don’t want) to do.

TheRealBicycleBuck > benn454 03/06/2019 at 10:59

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Yeah, they didn’t do that. I’ll be sure to ask for it when I go back at 1:00 for the airbag on my WRX.

OPPOsaurus WRX > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 03/06/2019 at 11:00

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purchase and sales.  i dunno i could be using the wrong words

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > OPPOsaurus WRX 03/06/2019 at 11:09

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Meaning they are foisting a purchase agreement on you just to test drive a car!? That’s fucking shady.

We don’t do that and we’re a luxury car dealership.

mazda616 > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/06/2019 at 11:10

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Yeah. Dealers suck. Back when my wife and I owned a 2006 Chevrolet Malibu, we had to deal with the local GM stealership all the time and it was awful.

They told my wife that her brakes were “dangerously bad” and quoted her $500 to replace the pads and rotors all around. Took it to a local shop and they said the pads were fine and the rotors were just a bit crusty . Had the rotors turned and the car was fine until we traded it in.

OPPOsaurus WRX > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 03/06/2019 at 11:11

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well you know, that was 2014, and everyone was doing anything they could to drive a 2012 WRX, especially since there were 2014's just sitting there.  Yea I bought somewhere else.

Svend > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/06/2019 at 11:19

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A national tyre and repair place did this to a friend here in the U.K.

Told her on one occasion that they wouldn’t/couldn’t replace just one strut, they only did them in pairs. She phoned her mum and her mum was busy, thankfully I live just around the corner and walked round. Looked them and said, ‘fit the one strut, the other is fine, it was done three months ago’. They just said, ‘okay, sorry’.

It’s not just women they do it to, they do it to anyone who seems like they don’t know much about cars.

I hate places that just pray on people. 

RacinBob > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/06/2019 at 11:20

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Something to consider is that pulling can be due to a bad tire. You would know by rotating the tires and seeing if the problem moves or goes away....

I suspect that there is more cars that pull due to tires than due to alignment, 

benn454 > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/06/2019 at 11:22

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It should look something like this. The tread depth chart is similar. They should produce both to you after they do the check on your car. It’s literally what they go by to see what needs adjustment.

Green means in spec, yellow means almost out of spec, and red means out of spec. Pretty self explanatory.

Also, after they are done, they should print out ANOTHER set of graphs that are all green to show that your car is now in spec. If they cannot or will not produce both sets of graphs, go somewhere else.

TheRealBicycleBuck > benn454 03/06/2019 at 11:27

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Excellent information. I will follow up with them at 1:00.

Thanks!

benn454 > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/06/2019 at 11:34

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No problem. It pisses me off when shady assholes pull shit like this.

TheRealBicycleBuck > OPPOsaurus WRX 03/06/2019 at 11:38

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We had that happen at a Dodge dealership. We refused to sign. The salesman let us take a test drive anyway. When he realized we were true to our word and only wanted to test drive a few cars, he passed us off to a different salesman . The second one was waiting for us when we came back with the first car. He explained that the other salesman needed to attend to another customer and h e had the other two cars waiting for us, so we didn’t care. I wasn’t happy with the first guy anyway.

We test drove the other two cars and then, because the second salesman   was patient with us and didn’t try to pressure us in any way, we asked for an out-the-door price on the first car we drove . He offered a couple-hundred over invoice, so we bought a new car from him. I imagine the first salesman  was a little upset that he walked away from a sale.

TheRealBicycleBuck > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 03/06/2019 at 11:42

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I may not save a bunch on my own labor, but we must factor in bonding time with my kids. The reason we “missed” the last oil change at the Subaru dealer was because I used that opportunity to teach my daughter how to change the oil on the car she’s going to take to college. Now she’ll know how to do the oil, change the filters, change a flat, replace the brake pads, and change the spark plugs. She won’t be some helpless little girl who doesn’t know anything about caring for her car. My son has been less receptive to learning about cars, but he’s been out there, nonetheless.

TheRealBicycleBuck > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 03/06/2019 at 11:45

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It doesn’t pull as much to the right as it did before, but now it feels vague in the front. I’m going to follow up per ben454's suggestion.

TheRealBicycleBuck > RacinBob 03/06/2019 at 11:45

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It could be, but I noticed a little curb rash on the right-front wheel. :/

TheRealBicycleBuck > LongbowMkII 03/06/2019 at 11:56

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It’s odd, I’ve found several Subaru maintenance schedules and the recommendations are either 60k, 100k, or 112k miles.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/06/2019 at 12:18

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Dude, as someone who was once dumb enough to do Subaru spark plugs myself (on a turbo no less!), DONT DO IT unless you’re experienced. The kids will learn so many new words for things.

Side note: I’ve pulled engines, torn apart intakes, done timing belts and chains, beat suspension parts into submission,  the whole 9 yards.  Nothing in my life has ever been more frustrating that Subaru spark plugs. 

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/06/2019 at 13:30

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These are all great reasons to do with yourself. I just hate it when people assume this or that about dealerships because “STEALERSHIP BLAH BLAH!!!”

I’m not saying there aren’t bad ones, a lot of them are, or even just a handful of employees at an otherwise good dealer. People just love to hate on dealers. But indies screw stuff up just as often.

Also, airbag, alignment, and wash can easily be done in an hour. But again, if you got a bad tech, the alignment might not be quite right.

RacinBob > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/06/2019 at 13:51

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Check it out. Tires will surprise you. I smacked a pothole and next found a vibration. I checked the rim and it did have a little runout, I even bought a replacement rim but in the end it turns out to have been the tire.

TheRealBicycleBuck > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 03/06/2019 at 14:00

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I’ve been known to be a glutton for punishment.

The only plugs I gave up on were the rear bank on my wife’s Explorer. I found out after a bunch of frustration that the Ford techs drop the engine and subframe in order to get to those plugs. I put everything back together, took it on a trip, then totaled  it before I had time to get it to the dealer for those plugs.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > LongbowMkII 03/06/2019 at 16:56

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My Cruze has 60k interval on plugs. In this case it’s a relatively high compression turbo engines. 

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > LongbowMkII 03/06/2019 at 17:30

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Short? That’s fairly standard for iridium plugs. Subaru’s EJ called for platinum every 30k. 

ohioplayer1177 > LongbowMkII 03/07/2019 at 06:43

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I have heard that some manufactures are  going back to copper plugs. Something to do with spark temps and direct injection. Im glad I have the 100,000 mile kind.. 

Rayray > ArmadaExpress drives a turbo outback 03/07/2019 at 07:22

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Its an intake cleaning system. It gets out all of the build up that can lower the gas mileage and cause more wear an tear .. many manufacturers do recommend that you have it done depending on your make and driving habits and if the vehicle requires lower octane. I've seen alot if backyard mechanics do alot of work but never seen one do a flush? But anything is possible and if you doubt any work was done by the dealer then there's other issues that you have and the tires that person could've had a off day or was letting you know that on Subaru all tires have to be equal tread because it's AWD so if one is off then your better off getting them all done if they are older and past the newer side of them.unless you want to shave 3 brand new tires to match 1 that's half way decent? Which would probably be more money than buying the 4th tire

Party-vi > LongbowMkII 03/07/2019 at 08:24

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Seems about right, considering BMW did the whole 100,000 plugs/fluids thing on their older cars and it was a terrible idea.

LongbowMkII > Party-vi 03/07/2019 at 10:03

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Iirc my Yaris, 5  and S2k were 100k, but they have the inherent advantage of not being BMWs.